[OccupyComms] [Occupy London] Re: I dont have time for this conversation

Fri Feb 24 11:38:02 GMT 2012

Ragnhild Freng Dale <ragnhildfd at gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Whilst not getting involved in the overall discussion, just a clarification point:

to contact the OT should be easy. On our website, under "contact", you find olsx.indymedia at gmail.com

And we have facebook and twitter too =) 

I for one can't report, as I can't attend, but I am sure we would welcome a submission if anyone is willing to take responsibility. If so, get in touch with me. 

Best,

Ragnhild

2012/2/23 Adam Jung <ahdham at gmail.com>

It appears Occupation Records is on the agenda as well.  I think it would be brilliant to present the model we've developed for the label and discuss our upcoming plans with UK and Irish occupations, unfortunately as we have not be contacted (and just became aware of it today) that won't be possible.

Please get in touch with us if this happens in the future.

Adam Jung

This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law.  If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message.  Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. [v.T.1]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 7:38 PM, Steve Maclean <steven.maclean79 at gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Joe,

I (and I'm sure others in the OT wg) would love to be part of a NGA and to inform people of how we do things. For that to happen though, we would need at least a week's notice (ideally more), especially if it were outside London.

I saw there was a note to send invitations, but it seems that never happened. I didn't even know a NGA was scheduled to take place in Liverpool!

As it happens I have a busy weekend, and don't much like that the Pirate Pad has some misinformation (there was no proposal to move the NGA to London met with consensus) so I won't be taking any part. 

I can't speak for anyone else in the group, but as they are all busy people and don't actually know about this yet, I imagine no-one else from the OT will be present either.

Steve

On 23 February 2012 19:27, Joe <joe at occupysheffield.org.uk> wrote:

This is the agenda pad that has been worked on for the Liverpool conference, yeah.

It can be cut and pasted and edited and re-used however people like for a London event if people want to do it.

It can also be used as a base for the next conference in March, of to form discussions at your respective General Assemblies.

We are a flexible movement! How awesome is that?

Unstoppable,

Joe

On 23 February 2012 19:16, Elizabeth Beech <liz.beech at virgin.net> wrote:

I've been foolish enough to go on pirate pad for this 'conference'.

There is a very full agenda, plus 3 meals a day are proposed.

If I was preparing to come down for this I would be very excited about it.

Since I'm now off to St. Paul's for a candle -lit vigil I will be off-line for several hours.

I recommend Occupy London to take a look at the proposals for agenda on the pirate pad.

Liz x 

On 23 Feb 2012, at 18:52, Steve Maclean wrote:

It has been brought to my attention that The Occupied Times is included on the agenda, in a way that suggests members of the OT working group ought to be present to discuss how we operate.

Whoever decided that might have wanted to get in touch and let us know at some point, as none of us have been informed about this at all, and being a group of busy non-telepathic people, we require some communication in advance before magically appearing on the whim of others.

This seems badly organised and hasn't had proper consensus.

Steve

On 23 February 2012 14:46, Anthony Clinton <anthony at silverback-group.co.uk> wrote:

Don't mean to be harsh Tina but I really really don't have time for this right now. Talk to school of ideas or Ronan for updates on where thing are with this.

All the best Ant.
--------------------------

Once again, Just to be clear. I am not organising this event.. Just forwarding information from School of Ideas. 

To the best of my knowledge the venue change had a national consensus (don't know if any body was looking for consensus from st paul's camp - i wasn't there.) and if the event goes ahead it will be Hosted by Occupy Liverpool with help from school of ideas. 

see details here. https://occupywiki.org.uk/wiki/National_Occupy_Conference/2012-02_Liverpool

I would suggest that any attendees contact Occupy Liverpool directly or School of Ideas on 07954227762.

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Tina Louise <tinalouise at gmail.com> wrote:

I feel this is a harsh response to a set of perfectly rational concerns. It would be more helpful if you could say which working groups and who the organiser is please. I do think that a lot of this discussion could be a waste as we lost the appeal yesterday and eviction is coming. Planning any further ahead than a few hours, for on-site activities at St Paul's, seems unwise.

On 23 February 2012 14:33, Anthony Clinton <anthony at silverback-group.co.uk> wrote:

Tina, you need eduction before making assumptions. 

1. I am part of three working groups
2. I am not the organiser of this event 
3. I have no events or cabarets planned

Please stop wasting my time with misinformation.

Ant

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 2:20 PM, tina bakolitsa <tina.bakolitsa at gmail.com> wrote:

Forwarding the e-mail I just sent out at Occupy London's groupspaces. 

Anthony, also cc'd in this e-mail, is the only person who has come forward as a possible point of contact/organiser for this event. He is not part of any Occupy London working groups but has arranged cabarets at the Bank of Ideas in the past and now at School of ideas.

Tina

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: tina bakolitsa <tina.bakolitsa at gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Occupy London] Fwd: National Occupy Conference London 24/02/2012
To: lsxcamp at gmail.com
Cc: Anthony Clinton <anthony at silverback-group.co.uk>, "occupyworthing at hotmail.co.uk" <occupyworthing at hotmail.co.uk>, occupylondon <OccupyLondon at groupspaces.com>

To repeat. Although the switch of venue for the national conference was announced during last night's GA as a proposal, there is no record of it having achieved consensus. In fact, it appears to have been announced as a given, in between discussion group feedbacks (group 5 and 6):

http://occupylsx.org/?p=3693

Unless the minute-taker omitted to record consensus for this proposal by the GA, this is not an Occupy London event.

There is also no OL working group behind this event (so this can not go out as an OL working group event) but it can still ride on the strength of individual initiative. 

If Anthony is the organiser, can you please provide a phone number so attendees can have a point of contact for any questions, e.g. where to sleep.

I also hope that, as has been the case with previous such conferences, the organiser(s) can make arrangements for securing food for everyone three times a day, printouts of the agenda, recordings and if possible any agenda-relevant talks or workshops beyond entertainment.

Tina

PS. In addition to the overlapping events scheduled for this weekend, there are more that have been booked long in advance but are not visible on the event calendar, e.g. real democracy w.g. teach-in 12:30-16:30 this Saturday.

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 1:36 PM, David Scotland <scotlandaware at googlemail.com> wrote:

Hello, lovely to meet you all.

I also have a concern.  My concern is that last night in the vestibule
of Saint Pauls after over 100 people rapturously applauded the
strategic move to hold the national GA in London this weekend
(following discussions at a national level and including a consensus
agreement of occupy liverpool) after which a message was sent out
nationally for delegates to book tickets.

I am concerned that after having witnessed what I feel and many agree
to be a deliberate strategy of disruption against the NGA, one of few
we have left in a rapidly shrinking window we have to make a
difference, that this conversation is even taking place at all.  My
main concern is that I was exclusded from this conversation and that
until now it has taken place without me, or any others I have been
discussing arrangements with.

If the National GA is disrupted it will ultimately be because of the
confusion being caused because this conversation was started on a
negative instead of a postive.  Im sure that this was just a mistake
on behalf of these individuals.

 I am concerned that after having spoken personally to over a hundred
people seperate to the emergency meeting held at St Pauls who all
think its a brilliant strategic move that a small group of people
unrepresentative of the greater group have taken it onto themselves to
backtalk a plan already in motion and being led by some who have never
attended a national assembly are now actively working to sow doubt,
disinformation and confusion against the plan which involves many of
the key players in London and at national level.  I have now spent two
hours trying to find and interject in this conversation, which i
should have been included in from the outset.

I would very much like to know how this small unrepresentative group
have come to the conclusion that we are not ready to hold the GA in
London when they havent spoken to any of the people involved in its
organisation.  Which fyi is 100%  organised and is now only lacking
delegates because of the delay caused by this conversation.

The only reason there is a problem with holding the national GA in
London this weekend is because a message of doubt and confusion has
delayed the delegates from their decision and travel arrangements.
Everything is in place for the national GA we just need people to come
to London.  So stop messing about and book tickets.  Or dont. Its an
individual choice.

I say to those who doubt what is possible, even after we have
consistently achieved the impossible to remember that if they believe
something is impossible they should not interupt those who are making
it happen.   With a bit of faith in ourselves we can achieve anything.
 The trouble is that when groups go off in secret and expend energy
and time in opposition to what others in plain site are orgainising in
a positive creative direction that our efforts are simply cancelled
out.

Personally I dont care if you as individuals dont support the National
GA being in London, with the exception of one of you,  ive never seen
you at a national GA anyway.  If you dont want to come, dont come.
Now instead of working creatively I am again tied up in the pattern of
occupy infighting.  I am now wasting time fighting to undo the damage
that my seemingly confused brothers and sisters have doneby acting
like the beaurocrats we are opposed to.  I ask you to assist me in
undoing the damage you have caused as it is you, who have given the
victory to the establishment by these actions.

I ask those on this email list to disregard all but this fact.  The
fact is this. We are ready. Delegates are asked to report to the
school of ideas. Everything is in place.

The call to move the NGA to London is a strategic move, It is both a
national show of strength and solidarity with occupy London and a
Global statement made in one of the three city states that rule the
world, that is currently causing misery for billions across the world.
 A statement that will likely make Global media and will be loud and
clear to the most powerful people in the world.  It is likely to be
one of the last of few National Assemblies we have before the worlds
matters are fully and irrevocably out  of our influence.

 It doesnt matter if some cannot make the NGA ( a matter made somewhat
worse because i was not included in this conversation from its outset
and a further 24 hours has been lost to delegates to make travel
arrangements) It does not matter if there is another NGA next week or
two weeks or next month for that matter.  The fact is there is an
opportunity to make a strong statement that we cannot be disrupted
that is being undone by this politricking.

I thought that was the point, Solidarity? If we actually agree and
work in one direction instead of different directions we might
actually achieve something with this movement.

Therefor make a decision.  Shall we let the establisahment deal us a
severe wound or shall we send a message to the whole planet that we
are still here and we will not be moved.

Im now delaying what i had planned to do in preparation, having wasted
3 hours already, Im now waiting for you to decide (and your not even
planning to attend...lol)  in this time waiting for you to decide
there are twenty people expecting this is happening and ready to do
prep.

By the way... intention was to hold next NGA in liverpool, the
building is ready to go when they are but they will need some support
to put in place.

-- 

Ant 
Mobile: 

-- 

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-- 

Ant 
Mobile: 

-- 

Friendly reminder: please keep these mailing list discussions to a minimum as they reach a lot of people. Instead you can email working groups and individuals directly, or use the Occupy London forum at occupylondon . info

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-- 

Friendly reminder: please keep these mailing list discussions to a minimum as they reach a lot of people. Instead you can email working groups and individuals directly, or use the Occupy London forum at occupylondon . info

You receive this email as a member of the Occupy London Groupspace. Manage your group membership or unsubscribe.

-- 

Friendly reminder: please keep these mailing list discussions to a minimum as they reach a lot of people. Instead you can email working groups and individuals directly, or use the Occupy London forum at occupylondon . info

You receive this email as a member of the Occupy London Groupspace. Manage your group membership or unsubscribe.

in the interest of transparency I wrote an 800 word explanation of how this all began and led up to this point. Its beginning being omar from liverpool coming to me with GA dilemma in the school of ideas. That email appears to have vanished here but is on the occupy London groupspace apparently. In any case a mute point. 

Having spoken with john and others face to face yesterday i believe intention is at next wobbly hands meeting (5.30 today st pauls) to make proposal for NGA to come to London next weekend or following. In my view this is the better option and im happy for the extra time to prep for NGA having been distracted by this problem. 

Can we make sure this is on agenda for tonight. Then im happy to now step back and let the people decide.

In my view we could effortlessly have pulled off this weekend had their been no friction. But in light of timing of eviction it is logical to wait a week or two? Depending on what the wobbly hands say. 

Im meeting later to discuss solidarity meeting at school on Sunday (time) which can be attended globally over internet. 
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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