[OccupyComms] [Occupy London] Re: I dont have time for this conversation

[Ragnhild Freng Dale]

Hi,

Whilst not getting involved in the overall discussion, just a clarification
point:

to contact the OT should be easy. On our website, under "contact", you find
olsx.indymedia at gmail.com<olsx.indymedia at gmail.com?subject=General%20Enquiry>
And we have facebook and twitter too =)

I for one can't report, as I can't attend, but I am sure we would welcome a
submission if anyone is willing to take responsibility. If so, get in touch
with me.

Best,
Ragnhild


2012/2/23 Adam Jung <ahdham at gmail.com>

> It appears Occupation Records is on the agenda as well.  I think it would
> be brilliant to present the model we've developed for the label and discuss
> our upcoming plans with UK and Irish occupations, unfortunately as we have
> not be contacted (and just became aware of it today) that won't be possible.
>
> Please get in touch with us if this happens in the future.
>
> Adam Jung
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 7:38 PM, Steve Maclean <steven.maclean79 at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Hey Joe,
>>
>> I (and I'm sure others in the OT wg) would love to be part of a NGA and
>> to inform people of how we do things. For that to happen though, we would
>> need at least a week's notice (ideally more), especially if it were outside
>> London.
>>
>> I saw there was a note to send invitations, but it seems that never
>> happened. I didn't even know a NGA was scheduled to take place in Liverpool!
>>
>> As it happens I have a busy weekend, and don't much like that the Pirate
>> Pad has some misinformation (there was no proposal to move the NGA to
>> London met with consensus) so I won't be taking any part.
>>
>> I can't speak for anyone else in the group, but as they are all busy
>> people and don't actually know about this yet, I imagine no-one else from
>> the OT will be present either.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23 February 2012 19:27, Joe <joe at occupysheffield.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This is the agenda pad that has been worked on for the Liverpool
>>> conference, yeah.
>>>
>>> It can be cut and pasted and edited and re-used however people like for
>>> a London event if people want to do it.
>>>
>>> It can also be used as a base for the next conference in March, of to
>>> form discussions at your respective General Assemblies.
>>>
>>> We are a flexible movement! How awesome is that?
>>>
>>> Unstoppable,
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23 February 2012 19:16, Elizabeth Beech <liz.beech at virgin.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've been foolish enough to go on pirate pad for this 'conference'.
>>>> There is a very full agenda, plus 3 meals a day are proposed.
>>>> If I was preparing to come down for this I would be very excited about
>>>> it.
>>>> Since I'm now off to St. Paul's for a candle -lit vigil I will be
>>>> off-line for several hours.
>>>> I recommend Occupy London to take a look at the proposals for agenda on
>>>> the pirate pad.
>>>>
>>>> Liz x
>>>>
>>>> On 23 Feb 2012, at 18:52, Steve Maclean wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It has been brought to my attention that The Occupied Times is included
>>>> on the agenda, in a way that suggests members of the OT working group ought
>>>> to be present to discuss how we operate.
>>>>
>>>> Whoever decided that might have wanted to get in touch and let us know
>>>> at some point, as none of us have been informed about this at all, and
>>>> being a group of busy non-telepathic people, we require some communication
>>>> in advance before magically appearing on the whim of others.
>>>>
>>>> This seems badly organised and hasn't had proper consensus.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 23 February 2012 14:46, Anthony Clinton <
>>>> anthony at silverback-group.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Don't mean to be harsh Tina but I really really don't have time for
>>>>> this right now. Talk to school of ideas or Ronan for updates on where thing
>>>>> are with this.
>>>>>
>>>>> All the best Ant.
>>>>> --------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Once again, Just to be clear. I am not organising this event.. Just
>>>>> forwarding information from School of Ideas.
>>>>>
>>>>> To the best of my knowledge the venue change had a national consensus
>>>>> (don't know if any body was looking for consensus from st paul's camp - i
>>>>> wasn't there.) and if the event goes ahead it will be Hosted by Occupy
>>>>> Liverpool with help from school of ideas.
>>>>>
>>>>> see details here.
>>>>> https://occupywiki.org.uk/wiki/National_Occupy_Conference/2012-02_Liverpool
>>>>>
>>>>> I would suggest that any attendees contact Occupy Liverpool directly
>>>>> or School of Ideas on 07954227762.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Tina Louise <tinalouise at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I feel this is a harsh response to a set of perfectly rational
>>>>>> concerns. It would be more helpful if you could say which working groups
>>>>>> and who the organiser is please. I do think that a lot of this discussion
>>>>>> could be a waste as we lost the appeal yesterday and eviction is coming.
>>>>>> Planning any further ahead than a few hours, for on-site activities at St
>>>>>> Paul's, seems unwise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 23 February 2012 14:33, Anthony Clinton <
>>>>>> anthony at silverback-group.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tina, you need eduction before making assumptions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. I am part of three working groups
>>>>>>> 2. I am not the organiser of this event
>>>>>>> 3. I have no events or cabarets planned
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please stop wasting my time with misinformation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ant
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 2:20 PM, tina bakolitsa <
>>>>>>> tina.bakolitsa at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Forwarding the e-mail I just sent out at Occupy London's
>>>>>>>> groupspaces.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anthony, also cc'd in this e-mail, is the only person who has come
>>>>>>>> forward as a possible point of contact/organiser for this event. He is not
>>>>>>>> part of any Occupy London working groups but has arranged cabarets at the
>>>>>>>> Bank of Ideas in the past and now at School of ideas.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tina
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>>> From: tina bakolitsa <tina.bakolitsa at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Date: Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 2:10 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Occupy London] Fwd: National Occupy Conference London
>>>>>>>> 24/02/2012
>>>>>>>> To: lsxcamp at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> Cc: Anthony Clinton <anthony at silverback-group.co.uk>, "
>>>>>>>> occupyworthing at hotmail.co.uk" <occupyworthing at hotmail.co.uk>,
>>>>>>>> occupylondon <OccupyLondon at groupspaces.com>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To repeat. Although the switch of venue for the national conference
>>>>>>>> was announced during last night's GA as a proposal, there is no record of
>>>>>>>> it having achieved consensus. In fact, it appears to have been announced as
>>>>>>>> a given, in between discussion group feedbacks (group 5 and 6):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://occupylsx.org/?p=3693
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unless the minute-taker omitted to record consensus for this
>>>>>>>> proposal by the GA, this is not an Occupy London event.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is also no OL working group behind this event (so this can
>>>>>>>> not go out as an OL working group event) but it can still ride on the
>>>>>>>> strength of individual initiative.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If Anthony is the organiser, can you please provide a phone number
>>>>>>>> so attendees can have a point of contact for any questions, e.g. where to
>>>>>>>> sleep.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I also hope that, as has been the case with previous such
>>>>>>>> conferences, the organiser(s) can make arrangements for securing food for
>>>>>>>> everyone three times a day, printouts of the agenda, recordings and if
>>>>>>>> possible any agenda-relevant talks or workshops beyond entertainment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tina
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> PS. In addition to the overlapping events scheduled for this
>>>>>>>> weekend, there are more that have been booked long in advance but are not
>>>>>>>> visible on the event calendar, e.g. real democracy w.g. teach-in
>>>>>>>> 12:30-16:30 this Saturday.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 1:36 PM, David Scotland <
>>>>>>>> scotlandaware at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello, lovely to meet you all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I also have a concern.  My concern is that last night in the
>>>>>>>>> vestibule
>>>>>>>>> of Saint Pauls after over 100 people rapturously applauded the
>>>>>>>>> strategic move to hold the national GA in London this weekend
>>>>>>>>> (following discussions at a national level and including a
>>>>>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>>> agreement of occupy liverpool) after which a message was sent out
>>>>>>>>> nationally for delegates to book tickets.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am concerned that after having witnessed what I feel and many
>>>>>>>>> agree
>>>>>>>>> to be a deliberate strategy of disruption against the NGA, one of
>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>> we have left in a rapidly shrinking window we have to make a
>>>>>>>>> difference, that this conversation is even taking place at all.  My
>>>>>>>>> main concern is that I was exclusded from this conversation and
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> until now it has taken place without me, or any others I have been
>>>>>>>>> discussing arrangements with.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If the National GA is disrupted it will ultimately be because of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> confusion being caused because this conversation was started on a
>>>>>>>>> negative instead of a postive.  Im sure that this was just a
>>>>>>>>> mistake
>>>>>>>>> on behalf of these individuals.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  I am concerned that after having spoken personally to over a
>>>>>>>>> hundred
>>>>>>>>> people seperate to the emergency meeting held at St Pauls who all
>>>>>>>>> think its a brilliant strategic move that a small group of people
>>>>>>>>> unrepresentative of the greater group have taken it onto
>>>>>>>>> themselves to
>>>>>>>>> backtalk a plan already in motion and being led by some who have
>>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>> attended a national assembly are now actively working to sow doubt,
>>>>>>>>> disinformation and confusion against the plan which involves many
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the key players in London and at national level.  I have now spent
>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>> hours trying to find and interject in this conversation, which i
>>>>>>>>> should have been included in from the outset.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would very much like to know how this small unrepresentative
>>>>>>>>> group
>>>>>>>>> have come to the conclusion that we are not ready to hold the GA in
>>>>>>>>> London when they havent spoken to any of the people involved in its
>>>>>>>>> organisation.  Which fyi is 100%  organised and is now only lacking
>>>>>>>>> delegates because of the delay caused by this conversation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The only reason there is a problem with holding the national GA in
>>>>>>>>> London this weekend is because a message of doubt and confusion has
>>>>>>>>> delayed the delegates from their decision and travel arrangements.
>>>>>>>>> Everything is in place for the national GA we just need people to
>>>>>>>>> come
>>>>>>>>> to London.  So stop messing about and book tickets.  Or dont. Its
>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> individual choice.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I say to those who doubt what is possible, even after we have
>>>>>>>>> consistently achieved the impossible to remember that if they
>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>> something is impossible they should not interupt those who are
>>>>>>>>> making
>>>>>>>>> it happen.   With a bit of faith in ourselves we can achieve
>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>>  The trouble is that when groups go off in secret and expend energy
>>>>>>>>> and time in opposition to what others in plain site are
>>>>>>>>> orgainising in
>>>>>>>>> a positive creative direction that our efforts are simply cancelled
>>>>>>>>> out.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Personally I dont care if you as individuals dont support the
>>>>>>>>> National
>>>>>>>>> GA being in London, with the exception of one of you,  ive never
>>>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>>>> you at a national GA anyway.  If you dont want to come, dont come.
>>>>>>>>> Now instead of working creatively I am again tied up in the
>>>>>>>>> pattern of
>>>>>>>>> occupy infighting.  I am now wasting time fighting to undo the
>>>>>>>>> damage
>>>>>>>>> that my seemingly confused brothers and sisters have doneby acting
>>>>>>>>> like the beaurocrats we are opposed to.  I ask you to assist me in
>>>>>>>>> undoing the damage you have caused as it is you, who have given the
>>>>>>>>> victory to the establishment by these actions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I ask those on this email list to disregard all but this fact.  The
>>>>>>>>> fact is this. We are ready. Delegates are asked to report to the
>>>>>>>>> school of ideas. Everything is in place.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The call to move the NGA to London is a strategic move, It is both
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> national show of strength and solidarity with occupy London and a
>>>>>>>>> Global statement made in one of the three city states that rule the
>>>>>>>>> world, that is currently causing misery for billions across the
>>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>>  A statement that will likely make Global media and will be loud
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> clear to the most powerful people in the world.  It is likely to be
>>>>>>>>> one of the last of few National Assemblies we have before the
>>>>>>>>> worlds
>>>>>>>>> matters are fully and irrevocably out  of our influence.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  It doesnt matter if some cannot make the NGA ( a matter made
>>>>>>>>> somewhat
>>>>>>>>> worse because i was not included in this conversation from its
>>>>>>>>> outset
>>>>>>>>> and a further 24 hours has been lost to delegates to make travel
>>>>>>>>> arrangements) It does not matter if there is another NGA next week
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> two weeks or next month for that matter.  The fact is there is an
>>>>>>>>> opportunity to make a strong statement that we cannot be disrupted
>>>>>>>>> that is being undone by this politricking.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I thought that was the point, Solidarity? If we actually agree and
>>>>>>>>> work in one direction instead of different directions we might
>>>>>>>>> actually achieve something with this movement.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Therefor make a decision.  Shall we let the establisahment deal us
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> severe wound or shall we send a message to the whole planet that we
>>>>>>>>> are still here and we will not be moved.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Im now delaying what i had planned to do in preparation, having
>>>>>>>>> wasted
>>>>>>>>> 3 hours already, Im now waiting for you to decide (and your not
>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>> planning to attend...lol)  in this time waiting for you to decide
>>>>>>>>> there are twenty people expecting this is happening and ready to do
>>>>>>>>> prep.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> By the way... intention was to hold next NGA in liverpool, the
>>>>>>>>> building is ready to go when they are but they will need some
>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>> to put in place.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ant
>>>>>>> Mobile:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Friendly reminder: please keep these mailing list discussions to a
>>>>>>> minimum as they reach a lot of people. Instead you can email working groups
>>>>>>> and individuals directly, or use the Occupy London forum at
>>>>>>> occupylondon . info<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmq3-2rx0r-2r7o257qyl?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.occupylondon.info%2F>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You receive this email as a member of the Occupy London Groupspace<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmq3-2rx0r-2r7o257qyl?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>.
>>>>>>> Manage your group membership<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmq3-2rx0r-2r7o257qyl?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2Fmy%2Faccount%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>or
>>>>>>> unsubscribe<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmq3-2rx0r-2r7o257qyl?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2Funsubscribe%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ant
>>>>> Mobile:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  --
>>>>>
>>>>> Friendly reminder: please keep these mailing list discussions to a
>>>>> minimum as they reach a lot of people. Instead you can email working groups
>>>>> and individuals directly, or use the Occupy London forum at
>>>>> occupylondon . info<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmsk-33wnh-2g1obhqzi0?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.occupylondon.info%2F>
>>>>>
>>>>> You receive this email as a member of the Occupy London Groupspace<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmsk-33wnh-2g1obhqzi0?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>.
>>>>> Manage your group membership<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmsk-33wnh-2g1obhqzi0?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2Fmy%2Faccount%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>or
>>>>> unsubscribe<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmsk-33wnh-2g1obhqzi0?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2Funsubscribe%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>>
>>>> Friendly reminder: please keep these mailing list discussions to a
>>>> minimum as they reach a lot of people. Instead you can email working groups
>>>> and individuals directly, or use the Occupy London forum at
>>>> occupylondon . info<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wo4y-2k9xm-er94dw4ho?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.occupylondon.info%2F>
>>>>
>>>> You receive this email as a member of the Occupy London Groupspace<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wo4y-2k9xm-er94dw4ho?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>.
>>>> Manage your group membership<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wo4y-2k9xm-er94dw4ho?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2Fmy%2Faccount%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>or
>>>> unsubscribe<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wo4y-2k9xm-er94dw4ho?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2Funsubscribe%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>   --
>>
>> Friendly reminder: please keep these mailing list discussions to a
>> minimum as they reach a lot of people. Instead you can email working groups
>> and individuals directly, or use the Occupy London forum at occupylondon
>> . info<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wob9-2gkew-1qhzmtxlo8?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.occupylondon.info%2F>
>>
>> You receive this email as a member of the Occupy London Groupspace<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wob9-2gkew-1qhzmtxlo8?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>.
>> Manage your group membership<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wob9-2gkew-1qhzmtxlo8?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2Fmy%2Faccount%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>or
>> unsubscribe<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wob9-2gkew-1qhzmtxlo8?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2Funsubscribe%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>
>> .
>>
>
>
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