[OccupyComms] [Occupy London] Re: I dont have time for this conversation

Thu Feb 23 19:50:04 GMT 2012

Hi Steve and everybody,
I am sorry that things got so confused. As Joe says the pirate pad is a
live document to propose ideas.
In the last two national conferences: Edinburgh and Liverpool we have
developed the idea of creating a website, which should work as a cultural
hub to spread the aims of the occupy movement in UK to the mainstream.
In order to do it, we have been discussing about working with you in
Occupied Times and Occupied Records.
I was in London, 10 days ago and I met Adam from Occupied Records and we
talked about this idea.
I couldn't get in touch with you or meet anybody from Occupied Times.
Of course we wanted to invite you to talk in the national conference about
how you work, and how a national perspective might be able to be included
and how it might be part of the national website.
Since, until yesterday it was not clear if the Liverpool NGA was happening
or not, I didn't tried to contact no one since everything was so confusing.
What are our channels of communication and how to contact with each others
is still a big challenge.
Hopefully we will be able to organize for the future.
Mac

On 23 February 2012 19:38, Steve Maclean <steven.maclean79 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey Joe,
>
> I (and I'm sure others in the OT wg) would love to be part of a NGA and to
> inform people of how we do things. For that to happen though, we would need
> at least a week's notice (ideally more), especially if it were outside
> London.
>
> I saw there was a note to send invitations, but it seems that never
> happened. I didn't even know a NGA was scheduled to take place in Liverpool!
>
> As it happens I have a busy weekend, and don't much like that the Pirate
> Pad has some misinformation (there was no proposal to move the NGA to
> London met with consensus) so I won't be taking any part.
>
> I can't speak for anyone else in the group, but as they are all busy
> people and don't actually know about this yet, I imagine no-one else from
> the OT will be present either.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> On 23 February 2012 19:27, Joe <joe at occupysheffield.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> This is the agenda pad that has been worked on for the Liverpool
>> conference, yeah.
>>
>> It can be cut and pasted and edited and re-used however people like for a
>> London event if people want to do it.
>>
>> It can also be used as a base for the next conference in March, of to
>> form discussions at your respective General Assemblies.
>>
>> We are a flexible movement! How awesome is that?
>>
>> Unstoppable,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>> On 23 February 2012 19:16, Elizabeth Beech <liz.beech at virgin.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I've been foolish enough to go on pirate pad for this 'conference'.
>>> There is a very full agenda, plus 3 meals a day are proposed.
>>> If I was preparing to come down for this I would be very excited about
>>> it.
>>> Since I'm now off to St. Paul's for a candle -lit vigil I will be
>>> off-line for several hours.
>>> I recommend Occupy London to take a look at the proposals for agenda on
>>> the pirate pad.
>>>
>>> Liz x
>>>
>>> On 23 Feb 2012, at 18:52, Steve Maclean wrote:
>>>
>>> It has been brought to my attention that The Occupied Times is included
>>> on the agenda, in a way that suggests members of the OT working group ought
>>> to be present to discuss how we operate.
>>>
>>> Whoever decided that might have wanted to get in touch and let us know
>>> at some point, as none of us have been informed about this at all, and
>>> being a group of busy non-telepathic people, we require some communication
>>> in advance before magically appearing on the whim of others.
>>>
>>> This seems badly organised and hasn't had proper consensus.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23 February 2012 14:46, Anthony Clinton <
>>> anthony at silverback-group.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don't mean to be harsh Tina but I really really don't have time for
>>>> this right now. Talk to school of ideas or Ronan for updates on where thing
>>>> are with this.
>>>>
>>>> All the best Ant.
>>>> --------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Once again, Just to be clear. I am not organising this event.. Just
>>>> forwarding information from School of Ideas.
>>>>
>>>> To the best of my knowledge the venue change had a national consensus
>>>> (don't know if any body was looking for consensus from st paul's camp - i
>>>> wasn't there.) and if the event goes ahead it will be Hosted by Occupy
>>>> Liverpool with help from school of ideas.
>>>>
>>>> see details here.
>>>> https://occupywiki.org.uk/wiki/National_Occupy_Conference/2012-02_Liverpool
>>>>
>>>> I would suggest that any attendees contact Occupy Liverpool directly or
>>>> School of Ideas on 07954227762.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Tina Louise <tinalouise at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I feel this is a harsh response to a set of perfectly rational
>>>>> concerns. It would be more helpful if you could say which working groups
>>>>> and who the organiser is please. I do think that a lot of this discussion
>>>>> could be a waste as we lost the appeal yesterday and eviction is coming.
>>>>> Planning any further ahead than a few hours, for on-site activities at St
>>>>> Paul's, seems unwise.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 23 February 2012 14:33, Anthony Clinton <
>>>>> anthony at silverback-group.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tina, you need eduction before making assumptions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. I am part of three working groups
>>>>>> 2. I am not the organiser of this event
>>>>>> 3. I have no events or cabarets planned
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please stop wasting my time with misinformation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ant
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 2:20 PM, tina bakolitsa <
>>>>>> tina.bakolitsa at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Forwarding the e-mail I just sent out at Occupy London's
>>>>>>> groupspaces.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anthony, also cc'd in this e-mail, is the only person who has come
>>>>>>> forward as a possible point of contact/organiser for this event. He is not
>>>>>>> part of any Occupy London working groups but has arranged cabarets at the
>>>>>>> Bank of Ideas in the past and now at School of ideas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tina
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>> From: tina bakolitsa <tina.bakolitsa at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Date: Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 2:10 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Occupy London] Fwd: National Occupy Conference London
>>>>>>> 24/02/2012
>>>>>>> To: lsxcamp at gmail.com
>>>>>>> Cc: Anthony Clinton <anthony at silverback-group.co.uk>, "
>>>>>>> occupyworthing at hotmail.co.uk" <occupyworthing at hotmail.co.uk>,
>>>>>>> occupylondon <OccupyLondon at groupspaces.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To repeat. Although the switch of venue for the national conference
>>>>>>> was announced during last night's GA as a proposal, there is no record of
>>>>>>> it having achieved consensus. In fact, it appears to have been announced as
>>>>>>> a given, in between discussion group feedbacks (group 5 and 6):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://occupylsx.org/?p=3693
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unless the minute-taker omitted to record consensus for this
>>>>>>> proposal by the GA, this is not an Occupy London event.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is also no OL working group behind this event (so this can not
>>>>>>> go out as an OL working group event) but it can still ride on the strength
>>>>>>> of individual initiative.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If Anthony is the organiser, can you please provide a phone number
>>>>>>> so attendees can have a point of contact for any questions, e.g. where to
>>>>>>> sleep.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also hope that, as has been the case with previous such
>>>>>>> conferences, the organiser(s) can make arrangements for securing food for
>>>>>>> everyone three times a day, printouts of the agenda, recordings and if
>>>>>>> possible any agenda-relevant talks or workshops beyond entertainment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tina
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PS. In addition to the overlapping events scheduled for this
>>>>>>> weekend, there are more that have been booked long in advance but are not
>>>>>>> visible on the event calendar, e.g. real democracy w.g. teach-in
>>>>>>> 12:30-16:30 this Saturday.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 1:36 PM, David Scotland <
>>>>>>> scotlandaware at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello, lovely to meet you all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I also have a concern.  My concern is that last night in the
>>>>>>>> vestibule
>>>>>>>> of Saint Pauls after over 100 people rapturously applauded the
>>>>>>>> strategic move to hold the national GA in London this weekend
>>>>>>>> (following discussions at a national level and including a consensus
>>>>>>>> agreement of occupy liverpool) after which a message was sent out
>>>>>>>> nationally for delegates to book tickets.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am concerned that after having witnessed what I feel and many
>>>>>>>> agree
>>>>>>>> to be a deliberate strategy of disruption against the NGA, one of
>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>> we have left in a rapidly shrinking window we have to make a
>>>>>>>> difference, that this conversation is even taking place at all.  My
>>>>>>>> main concern is that I was exclusded from this conversation and that
>>>>>>>> until now it has taken place without me, or any others I have been
>>>>>>>> discussing arrangements with.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the National GA is disrupted it will ultimately be because of the
>>>>>>>> confusion being caused because this conversation was started on a
>>>>>>>> negative instead of a postive.  Im sure that this was just a mistake
>>>>>>>> on behalf of these individuals.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  I am concerned that after having spoken personally to over a
>>>>>>>> hundred
>>>>>>>> people seperate to the emergency meeting held at St Pauls who all
>>>>>>>> think its a brilliant strategic move that a small group of people
>>>>>>>> unrepresentative of the greater group have taken it onto themselves
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> backtalk a plan already in motion and being led by some who have
>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>> attended a national assembly are now actively working to sow doubt,
>>>>>>>> disinformation and confusion against the plan which involves many of
>>>>>>>> the key players in London and at national level.  I have now spent
>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>> hours trying to find and interject in this conversation, which i
>>>>>>>> should have been included in from the outset.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would very much like to know how this small unrepresentative group
>>>>>>>> have come to the conclusion that we are not ready to hold the GA in
>>>>>>>> London when they havent spoken to any of the people involved in its
>>>>>>>> organisation.  Which fyi is 100%  organised and is now only lacking
>>>>>>>> delegates because of the delay caused by this conversation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The only reason there is a problem with holding the national GA in
>>>>>>>> London this weekend is because a message of doubt and confusion has
>>>>>>>> delayed the delegates from their decision and travel arrangements.
>>>>>>>> Everything is in place for the national GA we just need people to
>>>>>>>> come
>>>>>>>> to London.  So stop messing about and book tickets.  Or dont. Its an
>>>>>>>> individual choice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I say to those who doubt what is possible, even after we have
>>>>>>>> consistently achieved the impossible to remember that if they
>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>> something is impossible they should not interupt those who are
>>>>>>>> making
>>>>>>>> it happen.   With a bit of faith in ourselves we can achieve
>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>  The trouble is that when groups go off in secret and expend energy
>>>>>>>> and time in opposition to what others in plain site are orgainising
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> a positive creative direction that our efforts are simply cancelled
>>>>>>>> out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Personally I dont care if you as individuals dont support the
>>>>>>>> National
>>>>>>>> GA being in London, with the exception of one of you,  ive never
>>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>>> you at a national GA anyway.  If you dont want to come, dont come.
>>>>>>>> Now instead of working creatively I am again tied up in the pattern
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> occupy infighting.  I am now wasting time fighting to undo the
>>>>>>>> damage
>>>>>>>> that my seemingly confused brothers and sisters have doneby acting
>>>>>>>> like the beaurocrats we are opposed to.  I ask you to assist me in
>>>>>>>> undoing the damage you have caused as it is you, who have given the
>>>>>>>> victory to the establishment by these actions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I ask those on this email list to disregard all but this fact.  The
>>>>>>>> fact is this. We are ready. Delegates are asked to report to the
>>>>>>>> school of ideas. Everything is in place.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The call to move the NGA to London is a strategic move, It is both a
>>>>>>>> national show of strength and solidarity with occupy London and a
>>>>>>>> Global statement made in one of the three city states that rule the
>>>>>>>> world, that is currently causing misery for billions across the
>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>  A statement that will likely make Global media and will be loud and
>>>>>>>> clear to the most powerful people in the world.  It is likely to be
>>>>>>>> one of the last of few National Assemblies we have before the worlds
>>>>>>>> matters are fully and irrevocably out  of our influence.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  It doesnt matter if some cannot make the NGA ( a matter made
>>>>>>>> somewhat
>>>>>>>> worse because i was not included in this conversation from its
>>>>>>>> outset
>>>>>>>> and a further 24 hours has been lost to delegates to make travel
>>>>>>>> arrangements) It does not matter if there is another NGA next week
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> two weeks or next month for that matter.  The fact is there is an
>>>>>>>> opportunity to make a strong statement that we cannot be disrupted
>>>>>>>> that is being undone by this politricking.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I thought that was the point, Solidarity? If we actually agree and
>>>>>>>> work in one direction instead of different directions we might
>>>>>>>> actually achieve something with this movement.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Therefor make a decision.  Shall we let the establisahment deal us a
>>>>>>>> severe wound or shall we send a message to the whole planet that we
>>>>>>>> are still here and we will not be moved.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Im now delaying what i had planned to do in preparation, having
>>>>>>>> wasted
>>>>>>>> 3 hours already, Im now waiting for you to decide (and your not even
>>>>>>>> planning to attend...lol)  in this time waiting for you to decide
>>>>>>>> there are twenty people expecting this is happening and ready to do
>>>>>>>> prep.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By the way... intention was to hold next NGA in liverpool, the
>>>>>>>> building is ready to go when they are but they will need some
>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>> to put in place.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ant
>>>>>> Mobile:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Friendly reminder: please keep these mailing list discussions to a
>>>>>> minimum as they reach a lot of people. Instead you can email working groups
>>>>>> and individuals directly, or use the Occupy London forum at
>>>>>> occupylondon . info<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmq3-2rx0r-2r7o257qyl?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.occupylondon.info%2F>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You receive this email as a member of the Occupy London Groupspace<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmq3-2rx0r-2r7o257qyl?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>.
>>>>>> Manage your group membership<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmq3-2rx0r-2r7o257qyl?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2Fmy%2Faccount%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>or
>>>>>> unsubscribe<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmq3-2rx0r-2r7o257qyl?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2Funsubscribe%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ant
>>>> Mobile:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>>
>>>> Friendly reminder: please keep these mailing list discussions to a
>>>> minimum as they reach a lot of people. Instead you can email working groups
>>>> and individuals directly, or use the Occupy London forum at
>>>> occupylondon . info<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmsk-33wnh-2g1obhqzi0?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.occupylondon.info%2F>
>>>>
>>>> You receive this email as a member of the Occupy London Groupspace<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmsk-33wnh-2g1obhqzi0?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>.
>>>> Manage your group membership<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmsk-33wnh-2g1obhqzi0?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2Fmy%2Faccount%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>or
>>>> unsubscribe<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmsk-33wnh-2g1obhqzi0?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2Funsubscribe%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>>
>>> Friendly reminder: please keep these mailing list discussions to a
>>> minimum as they reach a lot of people. Instead you can email working groups
>>> and individuals directly, or use the Occupy London forum at occupylondon
>>> . info<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wo4y-2k9xm-er94dw4ho?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.occupylondon.info%2F>
>>>
>>> You receive this email as a member of the Occupy London Groupspace<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wo4y-2k9xm-er94dw4ho?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>.
>>> Manage your group membership<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wo4y-2k9xm-er94dw4ho?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2Fmy%2Faccount%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>or
>>> unsubscribe<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wo4y-2k9xm-er94dw4ho?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2Funsubscribe%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

-- 
Mac
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