[OccupyComms] [Occupy London] Re: I dont have time for this conversation

Thu Feb 23 19:38:16 GMT 2012

Hey Joe,

I (and I'm sure others in the OT wg) would love to be part of a NGA and to
inform people of how we do things. For that to happen though, we would need
at least a week's notice (ideally more), especially if it were outside
London.

I saw there was a note to send invitations, but it seems that never
happened. I didn't even know a NGA was scheduled to take place in Liverpool!

As it happens I have a busy weekend, and don't much like that the Pirate
Pad has some misinformation (there was no proposal to move the NGA to
London met with consensus) so I won't be taking any part.

I can't speak for anyone else in the group, but as they are all busy people
and don't actually know about this yet, I imagine no-one else from the OT
will be present either.

Steve

On 23 February 2012 19:27, Joe <joe at occupysheffield.org.uk> wrote:

>
> This is the agenda pad that has been worked on for the Liverpool
> conference, yeah.
>
> It can be cut and pasted and edited and re-used however people like for a
> London event if people want to do it.
>
> It can also be used as a base for the next conference in March, of to form
> discussions at your respective General Assemblies.
>
> We are a flexible movement! How awesome is that?
>
> Unstoppable,
>
> Joe
>
>
> On 23 February 2012 19:16, Elizabeth Beech <liz.beech at virgin.net> wrote:
>
>> I've been foolish enough to go on pirate pad for this 'conference'.
>> There is a very full agenda, plus 3 meals a day are proposed.
>> If I was preparing to come down for this I would be very excited about it.
>> Since I'm now off to St. Paul's for a candle -lit vigil I will be
>> off-line for several hours.
>> I recommend Occupy London to take a look at the proposals for agenda on
>> the pirate pad.
>>
>> Liz x
>>
>> On 23 Feb 2012, at 18:52, Steve Maclean wrote:
>>
>> It has been brought to my attention that The Occupied Times is included
>> on the agenda, in a way that suggests members of the OT working group ought
>> to be present to discuss how we operate.
>>
>> Whoever decided that might have wanted to get in touch and let us know at
>> some point, as none of us have been informed about this at all, and being a
>> group of busy non-telepathic people, we require some communication in
>> advance before magically appearing on the whim of others.
>>
>> This seems badly organised and hasn't had proper consensus.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23 February 2012 14:46, Anthony Clinton <
>> anthony at silverback-group.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Don't mean to be harsh Tina but I really really don't have time for this
>>> right now. Talk to school of ideas or Ronan for updates on where thing are
>>> with this.
>>>
>>> All the best Ant.
>>> --------------------------
>>>
>>> Once again, Just to be clear. I am not organising this event.. Just
>>> forwarding information from School of Ideas.
>>>
>>> To the best of my knowledge the venue change had a national consensus
>>> (don't know if any body was looking for consensus from st paul's camp - i
>>> wasn't there.) and if the event goes ahead it will be Hosted by Occupy
>>> Liverpool with help from school of ideas.
>>>
>>> see details here.
>>> https://occupywiki.org.uk/wiki/National_Occupy_Conference/2012-02_Liverpool
>>>
>>> I would suggest that any attendees contact Occupy Liverpool directly or
>>> School of Ideas on 07954227762.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Tina Louise <tinalouise at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I feel this is a harsh response to a set of perfectly rational
>>>> concerns. It would be more helpful if you could say which working groups
>>>> and who the organiser is please. I do think that a lot of this discussion
>>>> could be a waste as we lost the appeal yesterday and eviction is coming.
>>>> Planning any further ahead than a few hours, for on-site activities at St
>>>> Paul's, seems unwise.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 23 February 2012 14:33, Anthony Clinton <
>>>> anthony at silverback-group.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tina, you need eduction before making assumptions.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. I am part of three working groups
>>>>> 2. I am not the organiser of this event
>>>>> 3. I have no events or cabarets planned
>>>>>
>>>>> Please stop wasting my time with misinformation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ant
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 2:20 PM, tina bakolitsa <
>>>>> tina.bakolitsa at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Forwarding the e-mail I just sent out at Occupy London's groupspaces.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anthony, also cc'd in this e-mail, is the only person who has come
>>>>>> forward as a possible point of contact/organiser for this event. He is not
>>>>>> part of any Occupy London working groups but has arranged cabarets at the
>>>>>> Bank of Ideas in the past and now at School of ideas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tina
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>> From: tina bakolitsa <tina.bakolitsa at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Date: Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 2:10 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Occupy London] Fwd: National Occupy Conference London
>>>>>> 24/02/2012
>>>>>> To: lsxcamp at gmail.com
>>>>>> Cc: Anthony Clinton <anthony at silverback-group.co.uk>, "
>>>>>> occupyworthing at hotmail.co.uk" <occupyworthing at hotmail.co.uk>,
>>>>>> occupylondon <OccupyLondon at groupspaces.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To repeat. Although the switch of venue for the national conference
>>>>>> was announced during last night's GA as a proposal, there is no record of
>>>>>> it having achieved consensus. In fact, it appears to have been announced as
>>>>>> a given, in between discussion group feedbacks (group 5 and 6):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://occupylsx.org/?p=3693
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unless the minute-taker omitted to record consensus for this proposal
>>>>>> by the GA, this is not an Occupy London event.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is also no OL working group behind this event (so this can not
>>>>>> go out as an OL working group event) but it can still ride on the strength
>>>>>> of individual initiative.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If Anthony is the organiser, can you please provide a phone number so
>>>>>> attendees can have a point of contact for any questions, e.g. where to
>>>>>> sleep.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also hope that, as has been the case with previous such
>>>>>> conferences, the organiser(s) can make arrangements for securing food for
>>>>>> everyone three times a day, printouts of the agenda, recordings and if
>>>>>> possible any agenda-relevant talks or workshops beyond entertainment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tina
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PS. In addition to the overlapping events scheduled for this weekend,
>>>>>> there are more that have been booked long in advance but are not visible on
>>>>>> the event calendar, e.g. real democracy w.g. teach-in 12:30-16:30 this
>>>>>> Saturday.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 1:36 PM, David Scotland <
>>>>>> scotlandaware at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello, lovely to meet you all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also have a concern.  My concern is that last night in the
>>>>>>> vestibule
>>>>>>> of Saint Pauls after over 100 people rapturously applauded the
>>>>>>> strategic move to hold the national GA in London this weekend
>>>>>>> (following discussions at a national level and including a consensus
>>>>>>> agreement of occupy liverpool) after which a message was sent out
>>>>>>> nationally for delegates to book tickets.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am concerned that after having witnessed what I feel and many agree
>>>>>>> to be a deliberate strategy of disruption against the NGA, one of few
>>>>>>> we have left in a rapidly shrinking window we have to make a
>>>>>>> difference, that this conversation is even taking place at all.  My
>>>>>>> main concern is that I was exclusded from this conversation and that
>>>>>>> until now it has taken place without me, or any others I have been
>>>>>>> discussing arrangements with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the National GA is disrupted it will ultimately be because of the
>>>>>>> confusion being caused because this conversation was started on a
>>>>>>> negative instead of a postive.  Im sure that this was just a mistake
>>>>>>> on behalf of these individuals.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  I am concerned that after having spoken personally to over a hundred
>>>>>>> people seperate to the emergency meeting held at St Pauls who all
>>>>>>> think its a brilliant strategic move that a small group of people
>>>>>>> unrepresentative of the greater group have taken it onto themselves
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> backtalk a plan already in motion and being led by some who have
>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>> attended a national assembly are now actively working to sow doubt,
>>>>>>> disinformation and confusion against the plan which involves many of
>>>>>>> the key players in London and at national level.  I have now spent
>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>> hours trying to find and interject in this conversation, which i
>>>>>>> should have been included in from the outset.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would very much like to know how this small unrepresentative group
>>>>>>> have come to the conclusion that we are not ready to hold the GA in
>>>>>>> London when they havent spoken to any of the people involved in its
>>>>>>> organisation.  Which fyi is 100%  organised and is now only lacking
>>>>>>> delegates because of the delay caused by this conversation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only reason there is a problem with holding the national GA in
>>>>>>> London this weekend is because a message of doubt and confusion has
>>>>>>> delayed the delegates from their decision and travel arrangements.
>>>>>>> Everything is in place for the national GA we just need people to
>>>>>>> come
>>>>>>> to London.  So stop messing about and book tickets.  Or dont. Its an
>>>>>>> individual choice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I say to those who doubt what is possible, even after we have
>>>>>>> consistently achieved the impossible to remember that if they believe
>>>>>>> something is impossible they should not interupt those who are making
>>>>>>> it happen.   With a bit of faith in ourselves we can achieve
>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>  The trouble is that when groups go off in secret and expend energy
>>>>>>> and time in opposition to what others in plain site are orgainising
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> a positive creative direction that our efforts are simply cancelled
>>>>>>> out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Personally I dont care if you as individuals dont support the
>>>>>>> National
>>>>>>> GA being in London, with the exception of one of you,  ive never seen
>>>>>>> you at a national GA anyway.  If you dont want to come, dont come.
>>>>>>> Now instead of working creatively I am again tied up in the pattern
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> occupy infighting.  I am now wasting time fighting to undo the damage
>>>>>>> that my seemingly confused brothers and sisters have doneby acting
>>>>>>> like the beaurocrats we are opposed to.  I ask you to assist me in
>>>>>>> undoing the damage you have caused as it is you, who have given the
>>>>>>> victory to the establishment by these actions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I ask those on this email list to disregard all but this fact.  The
>>>>>>> fact is this. We are ready. Delegates are asked to report to the
>>>>>>> school of ideas. Everything is in place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The call to move the NGA to London is a strategic move, It is both a
>>>>>>> national show of strength and solidarity with occupy London and a
>>>>>>> Global statement made in one of the three city states that rule the
>>>>>>> world, that is currently causing misery for billions across the
>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>  A statement that will likely make Global media and will be loud and
>>>>>>> clear to the most powerful people in the world.  It is likely to be
>>>>>>> one of the last of few National Assemblies we have before the worlds
>>>>>>> matters are fully and irrevocably out  of our influence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  It doesnt matter if some cannot make the NGA ( a matter made
>>>>>>> somewhat
>>>>>>> worse because i was not included in this conversation from its outset
>>>>>>> and a further 24 hours has been lost to delegates to make travel
>>>>>>> arrangements) It does not matter if there is another NGA next week or
>>>>>>> two weeks or next month for that matter.  The fact is there is an
>>>>>>> opportunity to make a strong statement that we cannot be disrupted
>>>>>>> that is being undone by this politricking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I thought that was the point, Solidarity? If we actually agree and
>>>>>>> work in one direction instead of different directions we might
>>>>>>> actually achieve something with this movement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Therefor make a decision.  Shall we let the establisahment deal us a
>>>>>>> severe wound or shall we send a message to the whole planet that we
>>>>>>> are still here and we will not be moved.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Im now delaying what i had planned to do in preparation, having
>>>>>>> wasted
>>>>>>> 3 hours already, Im now waiting for you to decide (and your not even
>>>>>>> planning to attend...lol)  in this time waiting for you to decide
>>>>>>> there are twenty people expecting this is happening and ready to do
>>>>>>> prep.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By the way... intention was to hold next NGA in liverpool, the
>>>>>>> building is ready to go when they are but they will need some support
>>>>>>> to put in place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ant
>>>>> Mobile:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  --
>>>>>
>>>>> Friendly reminder: please keep these mailing list discussions to a
>>>>> minimum as they reach a lot of people. Instead you can email working groups
>>>>> and individuals directly, or use the Occupy London forum at
>>>>> occupylondon . info<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmq3-2rx0r-2r7o257qyl?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.occupylondon.info%2F>
>>>>>
>>>>> You receive this email as a member of the Occupy London Groupspace<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmq3-2rx0r-2r7o257qyl?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>.
>>>>> Manage your group membership<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmq3-2rx0r-2r7o257qyl?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2Fmy%2Faccount%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>or
>>>>> unsubscribe<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmq3-2rx0r-2r7o257qyl?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2Funsubscribe%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Ant
>>> Mobile:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>>
>>> Friendly reminder: please keep these mailing list discussions to a
>>> minimum as they reach a lot of people. Instead you can email working groups
>>> and individuals directly, or use the Occupy London forum at occupylondon
>>> . info<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmsk-33wnh-2g1obhqzi0?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.occupylondon.info%2F>
>>>
>>> You receive this email as a member of the Occupy London Groupspace<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmsk-33wnh-2g1obhqzi0?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>.
>>> Manage your group membership<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmsk-33wnh-2g1obhqzi0?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2Fmy%2Faccount%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>or
>>> unsubscribe<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmsk-33wnh-2g1obhqzi0?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2Funsubscribe%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>  --
>>
>> Friendly reminder: please keep these mailing list discussions to a
>> minimum as they reach a lot of people. Instead you can email working groups
>> and individuals directly, or use the Occupy London forum at occupylondon
>> . info<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wo4y-2k9xm-er94dw4ho?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.occupylondon.info%2F>
>>
>> You receive this email as a member of the Occupy London Groupspace<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wo4y-2k9xm-er94dw4ho?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>.
>> Manage your group membership<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wo4y-2k9xm-er94dw4ho?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2Fmy%2Faccount%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>or
>> unsubscribe<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wo4y-2k9xm-er94dw4ho?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2Funsubscribe%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>
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