[OccupyComms] [Occupy London] Re: I dont have time for this conversation

Thu Feb 23 19:27:55 GMT 2012

This is the agenda pad that has been worked on for the Liverpool
conference, yeah.

It can be cut and pasted and edited and re-used however people like for a
London event if people want to do it.

It can also be used as a base for the next conference in March, of to form
discussions at your respective General Assemblies.

We are a flexible movement! How awesome is that?

Unstoppable,

Joe

On 23 February 2012 19:16, Elizabeth Beech <liz.beech at virgin.net> wrote:

> I've been foolish enough to go on pirate pad for this 'conference'.
> There is a very full agenda, plus 3 meals a day are proposed.
> If I was preparing to come down for this I would be very excited about it.
> Since I'm now off to St. Paul's for a candle -lit vigil I will be off-line
> for several hours.
> I recommend Occupy London to take a look at the proposals for agenda on
> the pirate pad.
>
> Liz x
>
> On 23 Feb 2012, at 18:52, Steve Maclean wrote:
>
> It has been brought to my attention that The Occupied Times is included on
> the agenda, in a way that suggests members of the OT working group ought to
> be present to discuss how we operate.
>
> Whoever decided that might have wanted to get in touch and let us know at
> some point, as none of us have been informed about this at all, and being a
> group of busy non-telepathic people, we require some communication in
> advance before magically appearing on the whim of others.
>
> This seems badly organised and hasn't had proper consensus.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> On 23 February 2012 14:46, Anthony Clinton <anthony at silverback-group.co.uk
> > wrote:
>
>> Don't mean to be harsh Tina but I really really don't have time for this
>> right now. Talk to school of ideas or Ronan for updates on where thing are
>> with this.
>>
>> All the best Ant.
>> --------------------------
>>
>> Once again, Just to be clear. I am not organising this event.. Just
>> forwarding information from School of Ideas.
>>
>> To the best of my knowledge the venue change had a national consensus
>> (don't know if any body was looking for consensus from st paul's camp - i
>> wasn't there.) and if the event goes ahead it will be Hosted by Occupy
>> Liverpool with help from school of ideas.
>>
>> see details here.
>> https://occupywiki.org.uk/wiki/National_Occupy_Conference/2012-02_Liverpool
>>
>> I would suggest that any attendees contact Occupy Liverpool directly or
>> School of Ideas on 07954227762.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Tina Louise <tinalouise at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> I feel this is a harsh response to a set of perfectly rational concerns.
>>> It would be more helpful if you could say which working groups and who the
>>> organiser is please. I do think that a lot of this discussion could be a
>>> waste as we lost the appeal yesterday and eviction is coming. Planning any
>>> further ahead than a few hours, for on-site activities at St Paul's, seems
>>> unwise.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23 February 2012 14:33, Anthony Clinton <
>>> anthony at silverback-group.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tina, you need eduction before making assumptions.
>>>>
>>>> 1. I am part of three working groups
>>>> 2. I am not the organiser of this event
>>>> 3. I have no events or cabarets planned
>>>>
>>>> Please stop wasting my time with misinformation.
>>>>
>>>> Ant
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 2:20 PM, tina bakolitsa <
>>>> tina.bakolitsa at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Forwarding the e-mail I just sent out at Occupy London's groupspaces.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anthony, also cc'd in this e-mail, is the only person who has come
>>>>> forward as a possible point of contact/organiser for this event. He is not
>>>>> part of any Occupy London working groups but has arranged cabarets at the
>>>>> Bank of Ideas in the past and now at School of ideas.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tina
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>> From: tina bakolitsa <tina.bakolitsa at gmail.com>
>>>>> Date: Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 2:10 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Occupy London] Fwd: National Occupy Conference London
>>>>> 24/02/2012
>>>>> To: lsxcamp at gmail.com
>>>>> Cc: Anthony Clinton <anthony at silverback-group.co.uk>, "
>>>>> occupyworthing at hotmail.co.uk" <occupyworthing at hotmail.co.uk>,
>>>>> occupylondon <OccupyLondon at groupspaces.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> To repeat. Although the switch of venue for the national conference
>>>>> was announced during last night's GA as a proposal, there is no record of
>>>>> it having achieved consensus. In fact, it appears to have been announced as
>>>>> a given, in between discussion group feedbacks (group 5 and 6):
>>>>>
>>>>> http://occupylsx.org/?p=3693
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless the minute-taker omitted to record consensus for this proposal
>>>>> by the GA, this is not an Occupy London event.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is also no OL working group behind this event (so this can not
>>>>> go out as an OL working group event) but it can still ride on the strength
>>>>> of individual initiative.
>>>>>
>>>>> If Anthony is the organiser, can you please provide a phone number so
>>>>> attendees can have a point of contact for any questions, e.g. where to
>>>>> sleep.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also hope that, as has been the case with previous such conferences,
>>>>> the organiser(s) can make arrangements for securing food for everyone three
>>>>> times a day, printouts of the agenda, recordings and if possible any
>>>>> agenda-relevant talks or workshops beyond entertainment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tina
>>>>>
>>>>> PS. In addition to the overlapping events scheduled for this weekend,
>>>>> there are more that have been booked long in advance but are not visible on
>>>>> the event calendar, e.g. real democracy w.g. teach-in 12:30-16:30 this
>>>>> Saturday.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 1:36 PM, David Scotland <
>>>>> scotlandaware at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello, lovely to meet you all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also have a concern.  My concern is that last night in the vestibule
>>>>>> of Saint Pauls after over 100 people rapturously applauded the
>>>>>> strategic move to hold the national GA in London this weekend
>>>>>> (following discussions at a national level and including a consensus
>>>>>> agreement of occupy liverpool) after which a message was sent out
>>>>>> nationally for delegates to book tickets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am concerned that after having witnessed what I feel and many agree
>>>>>> to be a deliberate strategy of disruption against the NGA, one of few
>>>>>> we have left in a rapidly shrinking window we have to make a
>>>>>> difference, that this conversation is even taking place at all.  My
>>>>>> main concern is that I was exclusded from this conversation and that
>>>>>> until now it has taken place without me, or any others I have been
>>>>>> discussing arrangements with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the National GA is disrupted it will ultimately be because of the
>>>>>> confusion being caused because this conversation was started on a
>>>>>> negative instead of a postive.  Im sure that this was just a mistake
>>>>>> on behalf of these individuals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I am concerned that after having spoken personally to over a hundred
>>>>>> people seperate to the emergency meeting held at St Pauls who all
>>>>>> think its a brilliant strategic move that a small group of people
>>>>>> unrepresentative of the greater group have taken it onto themselves to
>>>>>> backtalk a plan already in motion and being led by some who have never
>>>>>> attended a national assembly are now actively working to sow doubt,
>>>>>> disinformation and confusion against the plan which involves many of
>>>>>> the key players in London and at national level.  I have now spent two
>>>>>> hours trying to find and interject in this conversation, which i
>>>>>> should have been included in from the outset.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would very much like to know how this small unrepresentative group
>>>>>> have come to the conclusion that we are not ready to hold the GA in
>>>>>> London when they havent spoken to any of the people involved in its
>>>>>> organisation.  Which fyi is 100%  organised and is now only lacking
>>>>>> delegates because of the delay caused by this conversation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only reason there is a problem with holding the national GA in
>>>>>> London this weekend is because a message of doubt and confusion has
>>>>>> delayed the delegates from their decision and travel arrangements.
>>>>>> Everything is in place for the national GA we just need people to come
>>>>>> to London.  So stop messing about and book tickets.  Or dont. Its an
>>>>>> individual choice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I say to those who doubt what is possible, even after we have
>>>>>> consistently achieved the impossible to remember that if they believe
>>>>>> something is impossible they should not interupt those who are making
>>>>>> it happen.   With a bit of faith in ourselves we can achieve anything.
>>>>>>  The trouble is that when groups go off in secret and expend energy
>>>>>> and time in opposition to what others in plain site are orgainising in
>>>>>> a positive creative direction that our efforts are simply cancelled
>>>>>> out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Personally I dont care if you as individuals dont support the National
>>>>>> GA being in London, with the exception of one of you,  ive never seen
>>>>>> you at a national GA anyway.  If you dont want to come, dont come.
>>>>>> Now instead of working creatively I am again tied up in the pattern of
>>>>>> occupy infighting.  I am now wasting time fighting to undo the damage
>>>>>> that my seemingly confused brothers and sisters have doneby acting
>>>>>> like the beaurocrats we are opposed to.  I ask you to assist me in
>>>>>> undoing the damage you have caused as it is you, who have given the
>>>>>> victory to the establishment by these actions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I ask those on this email list to disregard all but this fact.  The
>>>>>> fact is this. We are ready. Delegates are asked to report to the
>>>>>> school of ideas. Everything is in place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The call to move the NGA to London is a strategic move, It is both a
>>>>>> national show of strength and solidarity with occupy London and a
>>>>>> Global statement made in one of the three city states that rule the
>>>>>> world, that is currently causing misery for billions across the world.
>>>>>>  A statement that will likely make Global media and will be loud and
>>>>>> clear to the most powerful people in the world.  It is likely to be
>>>>>> one of the last of few National Assemblies we have before the worlds
>>>>>> matters are fully and irrevocably out  of our influence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  It doesnt matter if some cannot make the NGA ( a matter made somewhat
>>>>>> worse because i was not included in this conversation from its outset
>>>>>> and a further 24 hours has been lost to delegates to make travel
>>>>>> arrangements) It does not matter if there is another NGA next week or
>>>>>> two weeks or next month for that matter.  The fact is there is an
>>>>>> opportunity to make a strong statement that we cannot be disrupted
>>>>>> that is being undone by this politricking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought that was the point, Solidarity? If we actually agree and
>>>>>> work in one direction instead of different directions we might
>>>>>> actually achieve something with this movement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Therefor make a decision.  Shall we let the establisahment deal us a
>>>>>> severe wound or shall we send a message to the whole planet that we
>>>>>> are still here and we will not be moved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Im now delaying what i had planned to do in preparation, having wasted
>>>>>> 3 hours already, Im now waiting for you to decide (and your not even
>>>>>> planning to attend...lol)  in this time waiting for you to decide
>>>>>> there are twenty people expecting this is happening and ready to do
>>>>>> prep.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By the way... intention was to hold next NGA in liverpool, the
>>>>>> building is ready to go when they are but they will need some support
>>>>>> to put in place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ant
>>>> Mobile:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>>
>>>> Friendly reminder: please keep these mailing list discussions to a
>>>> minimum as they reach a lot of people. Instead you can email working groups
>>>> and individuals directly, or use the Occupy London forum at
>>>> occupylondon . info<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmq3-2rx0r-2r7o257qyl?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.occupylondon.info%2F>
>>>>
>>>> You receive this email as a member of the Occupy London Groupspace<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmq3-2rx0r-2r7o257qyl?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>.
>>>> Manage your group membership<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmq3-2rx0r-2r7o257qyl?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2Fmy%2Faccount%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>or
>>>> unsubscribe<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmq3-2rx0r-2r7o257qyl?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2Funsubscribe%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Ant
>> Mobile:
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>
>> Friendly reminder: please keep these mailing list discussions to a
>> minimum as they reach a lot of people. Instead you can email working groups
>> and individuals directly, or use the Occupy London forum at occupylondon
>> . info<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmsk-33wnh-2g1obhqzi0?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.occupylondon.info%2F>
>>
>> You receive this email as a member of the Occupy London Groupspace<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmsk-33wnh-2g1obhqzi0?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>.
>> Manage your group membership<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmsk-33wnh-2g1obhqzi0?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2Fmy%2Faccount%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>or
>> unsubscribe<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wmsk-33wnh-2g1obhqzi0?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2Funsubscribe%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>
>> .
>>
>
>  --
>
> Friendly reminder: please keep these mailing list discussions to a minimum
> as they reach a lot of people. Instead you can email working groups and
> individuals directly, or use the Occupy London forum at occupylondon .
> info<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wo4y-2k9xm-er94dw4ho?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.occupylondon.info%2F>
>
> You receive this email as a member of the Occupy London Groupspace<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wo4y-2k9xm-er94dw4ho?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>.
> Manage your group membership<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wo4y-2k9xm-er94dw4ho?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2Fmy%2Faccount%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>or
> unsubscribe<http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1wo4y-2k9xm-er94dw4ho?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2Funsubscribe%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715>
> .
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://www.email-lists.org/pipermail/occupycomms/attachments/20120223/5fe82bed/attachment-0001.html>