[SlugBug] More weirdness from Richard Ibbotson

[Gary Stimson]

Hey ho

I decided to reply to Richard Ibbotson because I think building walls 
between Sheflug/Slugbug would be damaging to both. I cannot find any 
evidence of anyone except himself wanting to build those walls. His mail to 
me was so strange that I didn't see any point in sending a private reply; 
therefore I posted to the ShefLug list and have invited its members to have 
a brief say. Place your bets now on whether I get arbitrarily unsubscribed.

I'm not trying to stir here.. just trying to get this issue (and it 
shouldn't even be an issue) cleared up.

My post is below for the benefit those who left Sheflug.


--------------------------------------------------
Dear list,

This is a reply to an email sent to me by Richard Ibbotson one week after I 
posted a short note to this list to let people know about a meeting of 
SlugBug. I am replying publicly because his email raises important 
questions about the constitutional structure of Sheflug and about who 
decides what is and is not OK to post to the list.

*** After reading the below, I would be most appreciative if you would post 
a reply to the list on this yes/no question: ***

"Do you object if someone posts an announcement to the Sheflug mailing list 
about a forthcoming Slugbug meeting?"

I'm thinking of a simple announcement, like the one below and like the ones 
that are posted from the West Yorkshire LUG. The frequency will most likely 
be monthly to bi-monthly.
Hopefully we can then get this issue (and I'm amazed that we even need to 
discuss this..) cleared up. Thanks.

Gary


>On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Gary Stimson wrote:
> > As this list is often used to announce events at LUGs in foreign places 
> like
> > West Yorkshire, I'm sure it's OK to publicise a meet of "the other 
> Sheffield
> > Linux (and BSD) user group" tonight 7pm onwards at the Rutland Arms 
> (near Pop
> > Centre / Spearmint Rhino). There's no agenda or presentations - it's 
> just an
> > informal get-together. The pub has a wireless network if you'd like to 
> bring a
> > laptop.
> > http://www.slugbug.org.uk
>
>
>
>This isn't anything to do with personal nastiness or anything of that
>sort.  All I'm doing is explaining something.  Nothing more than that.
>I don't want to be unpleasant to anyone.
>
>The Slug-bug thing - or whatever it is - caused so much trouble that we
>had to send several pages to a local police department.  That and the
>fact that Eversheds over in Leeds became involved.  Eversheds only work
>if they can get a lot of money out of someone.  They are our ShefLUG
>solicitors.
>
>No one is telling me what Slug-bug is and at the last meeting I was told
>by the ShefLUG members to ignore it and not to take any notice of it.
>So, it would make life a lot easier for myself and other people if you could
>manage to drop it from our list.
>
>Hopefully this isn't something that will cause problems for yourself or
>anyone else.  Please write back if you want to discuss this but as
>Richard Stevenson over in New Zealand explained some months ago this
>matter is now closed.  It's been voted out due the extreme nature of
>the case in question.  End of story.


Dear Richard,

You invited me to reply if I wanted to discuss your email and I do have 
several points. I hope you will forgive me opening it up for wider 
discussion by posting to the list, but this issue is fundamental an issue 
for the health of Sheflug.

1) I find it very odd that you claim you do not know what Slugbug is when 
(a) there is a link to it above, (b) it was announced on this list and (c) 
you claim that it has caused a lot of trouble and that police and 
solicitors have been consulted. A brief explanation is that several people 
became disillusioned with the top-down dictatorial structure of Sheflug and 
decided to create a "fork" and start a group with a flat structure. In 
keeping with the group's inclusive style, BSD users are welcome. Many 
people, myself included, are members of both groups. Slugbug members are 
happy to coexist with Sheflug.

2) I have asked the people who formed Slugbug and they have no idea what 
"trouble" Slugbug has caused or what this police/solicitor involvement is. 
I have searched the Sheflug list archives and I cannot find any evidence of 
Slugbug causing any "trouble". Please explain in detail what this "trouble" 
is or was.

3) I have done a search on the list archives for "Richard Stevenson 
Slugbug" and "Richard Stevenson Slug-bug" (without the quotes) but both 
produce zero results. I then went through the list archives and read every 
post from Richard Stevenson since July 2003 (when Slugbug was formed). 
Therefore:
i) When did Richard Stevenson explain "this matter is now closed"?
ii) Please explain why a guy in New Zealand decides what can and cannot be 
mentioned on the Sheffield (UK) LUG mailing list?

4) You say that something about Slugbug has been "voted out due the extreme 
nature of
the case in question". Please tell me:
i) When, where and how this vote was held? It certainly was not held on 
this mailing list.
ii) Who was present for this vote?
iii) What was the wording of the vote?
iv) What was the result of the vote?
v) Why the vote is legitimate when it was not announced to Sheflug's members?

I look forward to your response - to the list - on all the points above.

In the meantime, your mention of things being voted out has spurred me to 
seek the opinion of the whole list on this simple issue.

Richard, I do appreciate the tireless work you put into organising speakers 
and maintaining the website. I, too, am not replying out of personal 
nastiness but instead a genuine concern for the health of the Sheflug 
mailing list and a desire to see both groups flourish. Personally I think 
that having two (B)LUG's is good for the Sheffield Linux community and that 
building walls between the LUGs would be damaging to both.

Gary