[OccupyComms] [OccupyLondon] URGENT! - Agitating for a Participatory Democracy Debate in the PAAA

Thu Feb 6 19:36:34 GMT 2014

Emma wrote  
<As it looks like our next OL GA will be on March 1st at the earliest, I'm not sure that OL as a whole would be able to endorse this - if that's what you're suggesting?>

Thanks Emma. I don't think Occupy London could be persuaded to affiliate and that is a requirement for groups wishing to put forward resolutions.  

However,  it could get discussed in WG meetings (inc the strategy meeting). If a WG wanted to affiliate with the PAAA to beat the deadline that would be a potential way to take forward a resolution, as affiliated groups need not be local PAs or national campaign organisations. Of course, that would be controversial and possibly not constitutional (does the PAAA and OL's Initial Statement clash enough to make it so ?) but if it was possible,  in itself it wouldn't mean Occupy was affiliating, it would be perhaps more akin to an individual Occupier supporting the PAAA so I suppose it might just be a clever way to quickly get the thing in. However, it could cause so many problems internally at Occupy, the last thing it needs right now. 

Therefore a better aternative might be for a WG, rather than choosing to affiliate, instead just working out a good plan to approach local PAs or other suitable (ie affiliated) groups to to encourage the resolution to be taken up by them. 

Anyway I think Andria mentioned the strategy meeting and also I wondered if RDWG or a world to win might like to take it forward.  

In terms of the March 1st GA I can't see it endorsing affiliation to the PAAA and also as you mentioned it'll be too late in terms of any other strategic intervention.

You also wrote 
<I can't see any problem with the first four points - I think they reflect OL's Statements...

1. People feel increasing disenfranchised from our political system where they feel their vote does not count & their voice is not heard.
2. People feel that politicians do not make decisions in the interest and well being of the people and the planet. Instead protecting the wealth and power of their friends and corporations.
3. The current centralized ‘system' is undemocratic and a major factor in how those in power are able to operate.
4. There is an alternative, participatory democracy. The case for this is based a new way of doing politics as exemplified by Occupy & 15M.

... but I have the impression that some occupiers wouldn't agree that PA is the body to promote as an alternative, nor that greater involvement in politics is the way we want to go.>

Thanks again for this Emma. All I know is that if we can use the structures that exist in the PAAA to debate about participatory democracy, and the argument that it (PD) is a, or even THE key part of any realistic alternative to austerity, getting any of that going in a meaningful way within the PAAA movement, then that will surely be a good thing. I have no idea if we can manage it, as you know myself and others have been preparing the ground for it as best we can in our limited numbers. At this stage there is a possibility, an opportunity to try, and that is all and it is up to people to do what they will with it.

Cheers, as always  

Mark 

Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: Em Weirdigan <elf at weirdigans.co.uk>
Sender: elfweirdigan at googlemail.com
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 17:55:19 
To: Mark Barrett<marknbarrett at googlemail.com>
Cc: occupylondon<occupylondon at lists.riseup.net>; Andria E-M<andriae4 at gmail.com>; assembly-discuss at lists.appropriatesoftware.org<assembly-discuss at lists.appropriatesoftware.org>; lsxcampeconomics at googlegroups.com<lsxcampeconomics at googlegroups.com>; rdwg at googlegroups.com<rdwg at googlegroups.com>; <occupycomms at email-lists.org><occupycomms at email-lists.org>; peoplesassemblies<peoplesassemblies at googlegroups.com>; campaignforrealdemocracy at lists.aktivix.org<campaignforrealdemocracy at lists.aktivix.org>; education-workers<education-workers at lists.riseup.net>; Freedom Assembly<freeassembly at lists.riseup.net>; peopleincommon at lists.riseup.net<peopleincommon at lists.riseup.net>; occupy-manchester at googlegroups.com<occupy-manchester at googlegroups.com>; Jacquelyn Howard<jaxaward at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [OccupyLondon] URGENT! - Agitating for a Participatory Democracy
 Debate in the PAAA

Thanks Mark.

As it looks like our next OL GA will be on March 1st at the earliest, I'm
not sure that OL as a whole would be able to endorse this - if that's what
you're suggesting?

I can't see any problem with the first four points - I think they reflect
OL's Statements...

1. People feel increasing disenfranchised from our political system where
they feel their vote does not count & their voice is not heard.
2. People feel that politicians do not make decisions in the interest and
well being of the people and the planet. Instead protecting the wealth and
power of their friends and corporations.
3. The current centralized 'system' is undemocratic and a major factor in
how those in power are able to operate.
4. There is an alternative, participatory democracy. The case for this is
based a new way of doing politics as exemplified by Occupy & 15M.

... but I have the impression that some occupiers wouldn't agree that PA is
the body to promote as an alternative, nor that greater involvement in
politics is the way we want to go.

Anyone else have thoughts about this?

Em

@emweirdigan
@gathering_green

On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 5:01 PM, <marknbarrett at googlemail.com> wrote:

> Em wrote:
>
> >Mark, can you explain in a very short amount of words what you're asking
> for? Sorry, I've read that twice and am not quite sure... <
>
> Yes. Sorry about that.
>
> Here goes:
>
> (1) Please support the following Motion (or a locally adapted version) to
> be endorsed at the National PAAA Conference. These must go in to the
> Conference via your local PA and/or affiliated local (or national)
> anti-cuts group or other affiliated campaign organisation. The deadline to
> submit resolutions to the National Conference is 22 Feb so that's the
> amount of time we have to convince relevant groups to support it.
>
> (2) Ideally also get yourself / another supporter sent to the Conference
> (March 15) as a delegate in order to support the Motion on the day. Each
> affiliated org can send up to 10 delegates (and submit up to 2 resolutions)
>
> Here is the Resolution, drafted for Manchester PA to consider, but easily
> adapted to another grouping or area:
>
> MOTION TITLE: The People's Assembly should exercise participatory democracy
>
> ZONE: Structure
>
> This conference notes:
>
> 1. The turn out in the 2010 UK general election was 65.1%.
> 2. Manchester Central had the lowest turnout at 44.31%.
>
> This conference believes:
>
> 1. People feel increasing disenfranchised from our political system where
> they feel their vote does not count & their voice is not heard.
> 2. People feel that politicians do not make decisions in the interest and
> well being of the people and the planet. Instead protecting the wealth and
> power of their friends and corporations.
> 3. The current centralized 'system' is undemocratic and a major factor in
> how those in power are able to operate.
> 4. There is an alternative, participatory democracy. The case for this is
> based a new way of doing politics as exemplified by Occupy & 15M.
> 5. The People's Assembly has an opportunity to lead by example and use it
> as a way to strengthen and grow the movement and foster a wider engagement
> with politics.
>
> This conference resolves:
>
> 6. To work towards incorporating participatory democracy and consensus
> decision-making across the PAAA.
>
> 7. To work towards a decentralized structure.
>
> 8. To establish a working group to look at the implementation of
> participatory democracy across the PAAA.
>
> Word Count: 208
> (196 without headers)
>
> Submitted by: Michelle Lanaway, michmanchester at gmail.com
>
> I hope that's clearer!
>
> Mark
> Sent from my BlackBerry(R) smartphone
> ------------------------------
> *From: * Em Weirdigan <elf at weirdigans.co.uk>
> *Sender: * elfweirdigan at googlemail.com
> *Date: *Thu, 6 Feb 2014 15:49:36 +0000
> *To: *occupylondon<occupylondon at lists.riseup.net>; Andria E-M<
> andriae4 at gmail.com>
> *Cc: *Mark Barrett<marknbarrett at googlemail.com>;
> assembly-discuss at lists.appropriatesoftware.org<
> assembly-discuss at lists.appropriatesoftware.org>;
> lsxcampeconomics at googlegroups.com<lsxcampeconomics at googlegroups.com>;
> rdwg at googlegroups.com<rdwg at googlegroups.com>; <occupycomms at email-lists.org
> ><occupycomms at email-lists.org>; peoplesassemblies<
> peoplesassemblies at googlegroups.com>;
> campaignforrealdemocracy at lists.aktivix.org<
> campaignforrealdemocracy at lists.aktivix.org>; <
> education-workers at lists.riseup.net>; Freedom Assembly<
> freeassembly at lists.riseup.net>; peopleincommon at lists.riseup.net<
> peopleincommon at lists.riseup.net>; occupy-manchester at googlegroups.com<
> occupy-manchester at googlegroups.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [OccupyLondon] URGENT! - Agitating for a Participatory
> Democracy Debate in the PAAA
>
> Mark, can you explain in a very short amount of words what you're asking
> for? Sorry, I've read that twice and am not quite sure...
>
> Em
>
> @emweirdigan
> @gathering_green
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Andria E-M <andriae4 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Mark
>>
>> we have the next OL Strategy meeting Feb 22nd, so if others are
>> agreeable, we could prepare a motion for that day yeh?
>>
>> Any takers, apart from Julie, mark n me?
>>
>> Andria
>>
>>
>> On 6 February 2014 11:14, Mark Barrett <marknbarrett at googlemail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Dear All
>>>
>>> I am re-sending this as a gentle or in some cases 1st reminder / point
>>> of info.
>>>
>>> If you would like to see a debate within the PAAA about participatory
>>> democracy, both locally but also at the inaugural National Conference (the
>>> sovereign body of the movement) taking place on March 15th, there is a  way
>>> to make it happen. This is because of some hard work done  behind the
>>> scenes in order to give us a fighting chance. For example, following
>>> interventions in the Signatories group meetings, all PAs have been told
>>> (see attachment 3 on electing delegates) and should be reminded they'be
>>> been told of the following :
>>>
>>> "..For the process to be democratic we also need to ensure respect and
>>> support for different organising approaches and demonstrate a commitment to
>>> transparency and accountability.
>>>
>>> To ensure the different currents in the Peoples' Assemblies movement are
>>> treated fairly and able to play their full part, where practical we welcome
>>> local Peoples Assemblies sending delegates from all elements of the
>>> movement: the variety of anti-cuts campaigns, the trades and student
>>> unions, the Labour Party, Green Party, the horizonalist organising groups,
>>> the revolutionary left and, most important of all, those who simply oppose
>>> austerity and are in no organised group at all other than the People's
>>> Assembly. So, in the delegate entitlement of 10 for a local Peoples
>>> Assembly, please try and reflect the diversity of traditions in the
>>> movement."
>>>
>>> So on this basis why not approach your local PAAA group (however you
>>> have found it before). They are duty bound to support delegates from across
>>> the organising spectrum and also to consider what motions they would like
>>> to support. Also, other groups who are affiliated with the PAAA can send
>>> quite a few delegates and also put forward resolutions. As you will see at
>>> attachment 2 (PAAA Conference Pack):
>>>
>>> "1.      Who can submit a motion
>>>
>>> Motions will only be accepted from recognised delegations and not from
>>> individuals.
>>>
>>> 2.      Delegation Entitlement
>>>
>>> For clarity, delegation entitlement is as follows:
>>>
>>> a.      Every local People's Assembly: a maximum of 10 delegates.
>>>
>>> b.      Local and regional union trade union organisations, including
>>> trades councils and students' unions: 2 delegates
>>>
>>> c.       Local anti-cuts campaigns that are recognised signatories of
>>> the People's Assembly: 2 delegates.
>>>
>>> d.      National trade unions: 10 delegates
>>>
>>> e.       National campaign organisations: 5 delegates."
>>>
>>> Finally see below, and Attachment 1 where a resolution HAS ALREADY BEEN
>>> WRITTEN for us (by an Occupier) to take to local PAs and also other
>>> campaign groups who are affiliated. Why not take it, as is and get the
>>> thing into the movement so its members are forced / given the wonderful
>>> opportunity (depending on your point of view) to properly consider it!
>>>
>>> NB
>>> *The deadline for resolutions to be submitted to the PAAA is midnight on
>>> 22nd February.  *---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> Dear All
>>>
>>> Attached is a Motion on Participatory Democracy drafted by Occupier
>>> Michelle, and which she hopes to persuade the Manchester PA (who she has
>>> worked with a bit already) to take forward into the National PA Conference
>>> in London on 15th March.
>>>
>>> Other local PAs or groups affiliated with the PAAA movement are free to
>>> take the motion forward into the March event, either in its existing form
>>> or amended (however, presumably it will be stronger coming from more than
>>> one place in the exact same form) and we hope local PA and other affiliated
>>> groups are persuaded to do so. If you are up for taking it forward into
>>> your local PA or other group, please let us know.
>>>
>>>
>>> *The deadline for resolutions to be submitted to the PAAA is midnight on
>>> 22nd February.  *
>>> In love and solidarity
>>>
>>> Mark
>>> PS a note about the new PAAA web-site. the page
>>> http://www.thepeoplesassembly.org.uk/recall_conference
>>> does not presently show the two official documents and I am assuming
>>> this is because of the change to a new site in recent weeks (the page does
>>> refer to the Pack but doesn't appear to contain it) - I will chase this so
>>> you can have reference to these docs as and when you approach your local
>>> groups as it's important to have what you are referring to in writing to
>>> support your case, no? Hence the positive aspects of the ideal of a written
>>> constitution innit ;)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Andria
>>
>>
>> "Harm reduction" is often made an unnecessarily controversial issue as if
>> there was a contradiction between prevention and treatment on one hand and
>> reducing the adverse health and social consequences of drug use on the
>> other. This is a false dichotomy. They are complementary.
>>
>>  Taken From UNODC (2008) Reducing the adverse health and social effects
>> of drug use: A comprehensive approach.
>>
>
>

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