[Cash-outreach-engagement-circle] MAJ and CASH

[Shiri Shalmy]

Hi all

I actually worked on an edit of Tony's document (uncannily similar in
structure to yours, Herta, but still different), which we were waiting for
MAJ members to approve before sharing with you. This has taken longer than
planned because of everyone's other commitments and some building work (a
new roof!) that demanded urgent attention.
So we now, confusingly, have two versions...

MAJ could hopefully discuss this at the meeting this week and I will then
be able to share with you our latest version (Herta I will hopefully have
time to incorporate some of your suggestions, too).
Once all approved and agreed, I am happy to put a final version into a
presentable document.

Apologies for the confusion,
shiri

Shiri Shalmy

07929 252724
@ShiriShalmy <https://twitter.com/ShiriShalmy>

Cooperation Town <https://www.cooperation.town> // Antiuniversity Now
<http://www.antiuniversity.org/> // Curatorial work
<http://www.cargocollective.com/shirishalmy>
I am a member of the Bakers, Food and Allied Workers Union
<https://www.bfawu.org>, of London Renters Union
<https://londonrentersunion.org> and of the London Capital Credit Union
<https://credit-union.coop>. Join a union today.




On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 at 11:47, Herta Gatter <herta.g at ldn.cash> wrote:

> Hi Shiri and Tony,
>
> Another apology from me for the belated comments on your draft document -
> thank you so much again for writing this and for coming up with the idea,
> it’s really so exciting and generous of you.
> We all wanted to go through it in detail and as Abby mentioned a lot has
> been happening but we’ve all had a chance to look now.
>
> Please find our suggestions as tracked changes / comments on the document
> linked below (comments come up as an orange highlight, let me know if you
> have trouble viewing). I’ve saved it on our online cloud which means that
> we can all edit it together and save other documents in the folder.
>
> LINK HERE: https://cloud.ldn.cash/s/Z5FsCKC5kD9XEPW
>
> I hope this is helpful and let me know what you think about the
> suggestions!
>
> At the end of the document I left some thoughts that might be good to
> discuss at some point around future plans for scaling up this idea
>
>    - How is this proposal different / why would co-ops choose this
>    instead of the Radical Routes fund?
>    - Would it be possible to set up a “credit union” type thing in order
>    to reduce risk for the individual co-ops and offer them something in
>    exchange (a savings account)?
>    - Are there any existing ethical responsible financial providers that
>    we could link up with to help with building up an infrastructure?
>
>
> I don’t really have any experience in these financial things but I thought
> you might do? I might also be able to find someone through my work who can
> give some advice.
>
> Also, I was thinking that I’d be happy to help in turning this document
> into a nice visually engaging brochure - but Abby said Shiri has already
> volunteered to do this? Let me know! I’m happy either way! As Abby said
> below it would be prob good to also have a ppt version if we go to present
> to co-ops.
>
> Hope to see you on Thursday eve
>
> All the best,
>
> Herta Gatter
>
> Outreach and Engagement Circle
> *Community Assets for Society and Housing*
> ldn.cash
> @ldncash
>
>
>
>
> On 23 Oct 2023, at 12:45, Abigail Hammond | CASH <abigail.h at ldn.cash>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Shiri and Tony,
>
> Please accept my appologies for not responding sooner in writing following
> our meeting - I had to wait for half term / post CCH conference for head
> space to do it justice.
>
> So, I don't have any feedback on the concept - brilliant! Essentially, you
> are talking about Loan Stock, which some co-ops already engage in. I
> believe there are contract templates in use (Helen Russell, Two Piers HC,
> Brighton said they have one (enquiries at twopiers.coop). This site also
> useful https://www.lexisnexis.co.uk/legal/glossary/loan-stock
> However, in presenting, I think it useful to interchange mortgage with /
> Loan Stock as more people will understand that.
>
> The main thing is presentation - I guess people will be able to show
> PowerPoint presentations at the event next week? All your figures are
> great, so to see them simply will be helpful. Shiri - I think you mentioned
> working on layout?
>
> Just another thought, will it be possible to do the event at Pelican House
> hybrid? I know people are on the waiting list and also I met good people to
> invite at the conference? Or maybe keep this one small and build towards
> another bigger event after feedback / responses on the night? I do think
> the time is right for invigorating co-ops to help each other and I think
> CCH can be instrumental in this. Is anyone from CCH coming? Martyn Holmes,
> the new Chair, is great!
>
> All for now, excited, optimistic and grateful!
>
> Abigail
>
> ​​​​
>
>
> On Monday, September 18, 2023 14:31 BST, Shiri Shalmy via
> Cash-outreach-engagement-circle <
> cash-outreach-engagement-circle at email-lists.org> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Herta
>
> I can make Friday 29 Sept at 6pm and have put it in my diary.
> Will wait for Tony to confirm.
>
> Best,
> shiri
>
> Shiri Shalmy
>
> 07929 252724
> @ShiriShalmy <https://twitter.com/ShiriShalmy>
>
> Cooperation Town <https://www.cooperation.town/> // Antiuniversity Now
> <http://www.antiuniversity.org/> // Curatorial work
> <http://www.cargocollective.com/shirishalmy>
> I am a member of the Bakers, Food and Allied Workers Union
> <https://www.bfawu.org/>, of London Renters Union
> <https://londonrentersunion.org/> and of the London Capital Credit Union
> <https://credit-union.coop/>. Join a union today.
>
>
>
> On Mon, 18 Sept 2023 at 13:18, Herta Gatter <herta.g at ldn.cash> wrote:
>
>> Hi all!
>>
>> Sorry for the late reply, we were just trying to find a date that works
>> for both the Outreach and Finance Circles.
>> If it’s till good, 6-7pm on the 29th of September would be great.
>>
>> Address is: House 11, Sanford Housing Co-op, SE14 6NB
>>
>> Looking forwards to meeting you
>>
>> Herta Gatter
>>
>> Outreach and Engagement Circle
>> *Community Assets for Society and Housing*
>> ldn.cash
>> @ldncash
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12 Sep 2023, at 23:55, Shiri Shalmy <shiri.shalmy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Tony and hello Herta
>>
>> I have also not been to Sanford yet so I am very excited to join the
>> meeting!
>>
>> Of the dates and times Tony suggested I can make the following:
>>
>> Wednesday 27th Sept – 12 noon to 7pm
>>
>> Friday 29th from 12 noon to 7pm
>>
>> Saturday 14th Oct – any time
>>
>> Sunday 15th Oct – any time
>>
>> Hope any of those work for you, Herta.
>>
>> Best,
>> shiri
>>
>> Shiri Shalmy
>>
>> 07929 252724
>> @ShiriShalmy <https://twitter.com/ShiriShalmy>
>>
>> Cooperation Town <https://www.cooperation.town/> // Antiuniversity Now
>> <http://www.antiuniversity.org/> // Curatorial work
>> <http://www.cargocollective.com/shirishalmy>
>> I am a member of the Bakers, Food and Allied Workers Union
>> <https://www.bfawu.org/>, of London Renters Union
>> <https://londonrentersunion.org/> and of the London Capital Credit Union
>> <https://credit-union.coop/>. Join a union today.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 12 Sept 2023 at 09:46, Tony Wood <woodywood2 at blueyonder.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Herta,
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry for the slow response but Jane from MAJ was away then we waited
>>> for our next MAJ meeting to discuss.
>>>
>>>
>>> It will be me and Shiri from MAJ coming down to meet you. I’ve never
>>> actually seen Sanford, so would be lovely to come to you. I know Shiri is
>>> involved in Anti University (https://2023.antiuniversity.org/) which
>>> runs from 30th September to 6th October, so I’ve put dates I can make
>>> outside those dates.
>>>
>>>
>>> Can I leave you and Shiri to say which dates/times you two can make and
>>> then we can set a time
>>>
>>>
>>> I can make
>>>
>>> Friday 22nd after 6pm
>>>
>>> Sunday 24th Sept – any time
>>>
>>> Wednesday 27th Sept – 12 noon to 10pm
>>>
>>> Friday 29th from 12 noon to 10pm
>>>
>>> Sunday 8th Oct – 11am to 3pm
>>>
>>> Saturday 14th Oct – and time
>>>
>>> Sunday 15th Oct – any time
>>>
>>>
>>> Shiri, I can also make some dates during Anti University dates, but just
>>> don’t know how manic you will be during it
>>>
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Herta Gatter [mailto:herta.g at ldn.cash]
>>> *Sent:* 15 August 2023 10:46
>>> *To:* woodywood2 at blueyonder.co.uk
>>> *Cc:* Outreach and Engagement <
>>> cash-outreach-engagement-circle at email-lists.org>;
>>> francine.holdgate at hotmail.co.uk; janelaporte04 at gmail.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Cash-outreach-engagement-circle] MAJ and CASH
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Tony,
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for getting in touch. That sounds like a super interesting idea
>>> we’d love to explore. I am also the Outreach officer at Sanford at the
>>> moment and involved in the Loanstock panel too - mentioned to some fellow
>>> members they also thought it was a good idea.
>>>
>>>
>>> Shall we have a meeting in September to discuss? Perhaps you could
>>> suggest a few times for a meeting in the second half of the September. I am
>>> happy to host at Sanford, or at The Field - would be nice to meet you in
>>> person!
>>>
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>>
>>> Herta Gatter
>>>
>>>
>>> Outreach and Engagement Circle
>>>
>>> *Community Assets for Society and Housing*
>>> ldn.cash
>>>
>>> @ldncash
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9 Aug 2023, at 11:34, Abigail Hammond | CASH via
>>> Cash-outreach-engagement-circle <
>>> cash-outreach-engagement-circle at email-lists.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: MAJ and CASH
>>> Date: Tuesday, August 08, 2023 17:05 BST
>>> From: "Tony Wood" <woodywood2 at blueyonder.co.uk>
>>> To: "'Abigail Hammond | CASH'" <abigail.h at ldn.cash>, <
>>> francine.holdgate at hotmail.co.uk>
>>> CC: <cash-outreach-engaement-circle at email-lists.org>, "Jane Laporte" <
>>> janelaporte04 at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>> This is Tony from Mary Ann Johnson Housing Co-op (MAJ) in Tottenham.
>>>
>>>
>>> Some of us in MAJ read your document X and we had an idea to put to you,
>>> although it might not be something you want to do, but happy to chat if the
>>> idea could fit into what you are looking at.
>>>
>>>
>>> In the past MAJ has tried to get the very large co-ops (mainly in
>>> London) to lend to smaller co-ops (especially those just starting out), but
>>> we didn’t really have much luck. To be fair we only mentioned it at one
>>> London Federation of Housing Co-op meetings and it was some time ago. We
>>> have stayed in contact with the London Fed and try to get to the occasional
>>> meetings and have kept our membership up with them. We would really like to
>>> see the very large co-ops start lending to smaller co-ops but we think they
>>> are scarred they could lose their money (I think some in Sanford might have
>>> had the same worries before they started lending, but hopefully they can
>>> see MAJ and I think the Drive are both fairly secure loans).
>>>
>>>
>>> So, we would like to chat with people from CASH (if this helps you) that
>>> we put forward that one of the big co-ops actually lends a sizeable amount
>>> to MAJ. MAJ would then use this money to pay off one of our mortgages. This
>>> would benefit MAJ as we would rather owe a co-op than a bank. MAJ doesn’t
>>> actually need to do this and it will be a lot of work convincing a larger
>>> co-op to lend (ideally we would want £125,000 but maybe we accept a lot
>>> less and also it could be a group of co-ops). The amount doesn’t actually
>>> matter. The idea is getting the bigger co-ops to start the discussion. And
>>> once they lend to a safe co-op like MAJ (we have a lot of assets (homes)
>>> that the loans could be secured against and have paid off quite a bit of
>>> mortgages and our house values have risen quite a bit) hopefully we have
>>> started the discussion and they will be more open to lending to newer
>>> co-ops in London, or at least be open to discussing it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Very very basically it could work something like this. Say a large co-op
>>> presently gets (say) 2% interest on their capital in the bank. Say MAJ pays
>>> 8% on its mortgage. MAJ could agree to give a co-op (say) 4%.
>>>
>>>
>>> Why should CASH get involved? Well apart from getting big co-ops to lend
>>> to smaller ones in London (and therefore helping new co-ops with finance)
>>> we are also thinking MAJ could also pay (say) 1 or 2% to CASH. So MAJ pay
>>> 6% - large coop gets 4% and CASH gets 1 or 2%. Obviously there would need
>>> to be a water tight contract (and this could be used for future loan deal)
>>> and the rates would need to be tied to bank rates as if loans went down MAJ
>>> wouldn’t want to be worse of that with our present lender.
>>>
>>>
>>> Also, and a BIG also, MAJ hasn’t discussed figures and amounts at all.
>>> All the figures I’m using, I’m using as just examples. MAJ said I can chat
>>> to CASH and can put some work into this, but we haven’t chatted about
>>> figures, percentages, or how much we could/would borrow from a large co-op.
>>> To keep this open I’ve also copied in Jane from MAJ, in case she feels I’m
>>> over stepping the remit I’ve been given by MAJ.
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyway, have a read. Digest all my ramblings. And let me know if its
>>> anything CASH might be interested in doing.
>>>
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>>   --
>>> Cash-outreach-engagement-circle mailing list
>>> Cash-outreach-engagement-circle at email-lists.org
>>>
>>> https://www.email-lists.org/mailman/listinfo/cash-outreach-engagement-circle
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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